In Brief Episode 2: April 10, 2025 | Essential Programming for Estate Planning Attorneys

Show Notes

• 0:28 Episode Introduction - Estate Planning Short Course 2025
• 1:37 Tell us about your involvement with IICLE.
• 4:59 What have you appreciated about the process of co-chairing this program's planning committee?
• 7:12 What are some features of the EPSC 2025 that stand out for you?
• 10:42 Why do you think estate planning attorneys should make time for the 2025 Estate Planning Short Course?
• 12:21 Wrapping Up - Register Now

Transcript

00:00:00 In IICLE's podcast Cornered Out of Court, we ask attorneys about the questions they get and the responses they give when non-lawyers bring questions to them. These monthly episodes include guest attorneys from different areas of law who help you escape being cornered. As you know, staying on top of recent developments is essential to your practice.

00:00:22 That's why sometimes we break the monthly mold and instead present in brief.

00:00:28 The Estate Planning Short Course is May 5th and 6th in Champaign and via live webcast, and May 19th and 20th in Chicago. The course includes two full days of practice guidance and networking opportunities for estate planning attorneys, with so many new developments in estate planning to be covered.

00:00:47 During this program, we're fortunate to hear from Lorraine Cavataio of Sandberg Phoenix & von Gontard and Stacy Singer of Northern Trust, who are Co-chairs of the planning committee for this year’s program.

00:01:01 I'm Lorraine Cavataio. I am an equity shareholder with Sandberg Phoenix & von Gontard. I practice mainly in the O'Fallon, Illinois area—or Southern Illinois—and I run that office for us. Sandberg Phoenix has offices in four states, and I mainly do estate planning.

00:01:21 Trust and estate administration and litigation, which is why I have been involved with this particular program for many years.

00:01:29 And I'm Stacy Singer. I work at Northern Trust Company, where I lead our National Trust practice.

00:01:37 You have both been involved with IICLE in many different ways over the years. In addition to co-chairing the Estate Planning Short Course planning committee, tell us a bit about your history with IICLE and what benefits you've enjoyed from contributing to its mission.

00:01:53 Well, I have been involved with IICLE for probably close to 25 or more years.

00:02:00 I don't really want to count more than that, if you don't mind. So I have been a speaker and an author for IICLE over that timeframe. Somebody in my prior law firm suggested I get involved. It's a great way to learn the materials and get to know people in the industry.

00:02:20 So with that, that's how I started, and I started going to the Estate Planning Short Course probably my first year out of law school. That would have been back in 1995/96.

00:02:33 It was a great way to get more practical experience about how to actually use all these things you learned in law school to do an estate plan for someone and handle these types of matters.

00:02:47 And the personal benefits—from back in the day sitting there—one, it not only helped me professionally to learn the various areas of work to become a professional in this, but also I have made friends with numerous individuals that I’ve done speeches with, including Stacy, who is also on this program with me. We met at lunch.

00:03:13 We both looked at each other and said, “Would you like dessert?” And we've been friends ever since. After that lunch, she's covered different things for me at times when I couldn’t make it up to Chicago. And we have been great friends ever since then—as well as with many other individuals at IICLE.

00:03:31 The key, though, for anybody attending—from my perspective on the personal level—you also get to see some of the lawyers that you’ve dealt with over the phone or via email. You actually get to meet them face to face and have a conversation. And sometimes in the world that we’re in, it does bring it all down—

00:03:51 —a little bit of a level sometimes. When you know someone personally, you can have more of a conversation and not an argument.

00:03:59 Like Lorraine, I have been attending and speaking at IICLE courses for more years than I'm going to share—but we’ll just round to say over 25. I have made so many friends from speaking at IICLE presentations. I’ve met people I looked up to for many years when I was a young associate in private practice.

00:04:21 I’ve developed wonderful friendships—like Lorraine—who has, as she said, been a friend for many, many years.

00:04:27 It has really been wonderful. I also am honored to sit on the Board of Directors for IICLE right now as the Vice President, and that has been a real honor for me. But I will say—I really cut my teeth on speaking at IICLE conferences, starting from smaller ones. I felt like I had arrived—

00:04:48 —when I was finally asked to speak at the Short Course. That was a big accomplishment for me. So I highly recommend getting involved to anyone who might be interested.

00:04:59 The Planning Committee for the Estate Planning Short Course has an important role in guiding the program’s focus and delivering an excellent experience to attendees. What have you appreciated about the process of co-chairing this program’s planning committee?

00:05:14 Specifically with the Short Course, I have been—as Stacy's already indicated—felt honored when I first got to present at it. And so I've presented various times in the past.

00:05:27 I’m now co-chairing that event along with Stacy, which is an absolute pleasure—not just because it’s with Stacy—but it’s always a pleasure to work with IICLE on these programs. Within that, we help coordinate the agenda, take input from prior attendees,

00:05:47 and also from other speakers, and put all that information together—along with the committee—to come up with a particular program to offer each year for attendees.

00:05:59 So that’s been our role. I think our role now—not to maybe steal Stacy’s thunder—is really trying to get some of the younger individuals to start to step up so they can have that same feeling like Stacy and I did of, “Oh my God, I’ve arrived! I actually know enough that I can speak to everybody else about it.”

00:06:19 This is our second year co-chairing, and we’ve really worked hard to make some changes to freshen up the program and try and make it a little bit different than maybe it was in the

00:06:28 past. So we’ve changed up the first morning—it’s now a discussion rather than three separate individual speakers. We’ve added more of an early-practice track for people who are just starting to learn the estate planning field, and we really have tried to

00:06:49 freshen it up—inviting speakers who’ve presented for many years and encouraging them—like me—to maybe step aside so we can get some new blood. Because I’m pretty sure everyone’s sick to death of hearing my voice at the Estate Planning Short Course.

00:07:03 So I think bringing some new energy—and we’ve also worked on new locations and things—all of which I think has been great.

00:07:12 The 2025 Estate Planning Short Course has some exciting new features and many great topics on the agenda. What are some features that stand out for you?

00:07:21 A couple of things I would point out—one is that this year, we have dual tracks for almost the entire course. Normally we only had that on Day 2, so we were more restricted.

00:07:30 But now, we have two tracks for almost the entire course—other than the Current Developments and the Keynote.

00:07:37 What that means for you is you have a lot of choices, which is fantastic. In Chicago, we’re at a new location—a super cool space—that I think is really exciting. And then I’ll just add, there are a couple of panels that or presentations I’m personally really excited about. There’s one on discovery issues for estate planners—that is an ethics credit—that I think is going to be fantastic. Because while Lorraine is a pro at litigation, I am a total scaredy-cat when it comes to litigation. So this will be super helpful for me.

00:08:12 And the other one that I think sounds really interesting is understanding the psychological dynamics in probate litigation, which is an ethics and substance abuse credit. So double bonus points there for Illinois lawyers. But also, I think it’s just so interesting—for anybody who’s been in the practice for a while—you know that psychology has such a huge impact on litigation: when people can settle, why they settle, whether they’ll settle, and all those kinds of things. So I’m super interested to hear that one as well.

00:08:42 I think Stacy summed up a lot of it. I would just touch on a few of the things I’m always excited for. The panel on current developments—I like the new format that we have because it’s always a way, if you haven’t been able to keep up with all the new things coming

00:08:56 out—or even if you have—to get a new spin on the developments that have happened under the law, to make sure you’re current with everything that you're doing in your practice. She kind of stole my thunder, because I am big on that one—the ethics session on discovery for estate planners. Because since I do litigation,

00:09:17 and Stacy said as well, I often see estate planners stub their toe on what they provide. They provide things without making sure they’re protected,

00:09:28 and that they perhaps hire counsel, etc. So I won’t steal the thunder of whoever’s doing that presentation, but I am optimistic that it will help all estate planners in general so we can all continue to practice and develop that professionalism. Unfortunately, it’s opposite of AI in estate planning,

00:09:49 and that is a bummer, because I’d also be curious to see the AI presentation as well. But the good news is—it’s also recorded. So I can always go back and check out the AI after I see the other portion of the ethics.

00:10:03 And I definitely have to say, if there is anyone out there—of our potential attendees—thinking, “Why would I want to sit through the psychology one that Stacy already mentioned?”

00:10:14 I want to tell you—I highly suggest you go to it. Because you will find, in many cases, you’ll be sitting there—particularly when you do litigation—going “Why? Why are we here?” etc. And sometimes hearing some of that stuff about the psychology of prior things helps you understand and help the clients work their way through a process to get to the end.

00:10:38 We know it can be difficult to set aside the time for a two-day program.

00:10:42 Why do you think estate planning attorneys should make time for the 2025 Estate Planning Short Course?

00:10:50 Again, it’s the personal connections. When you meet someone—even if you don’t already have a case with them—maybe you’ve heard of them, maybe you haven’t, but just

00:11:00 saying hello, etc., and meeting them, you open doors for other opportunities. For me, I’m in Southern Illinois. So a lot of my cohorts that are in Chicago—if they have a case down here in Southern Illinois—they may refer it to me or call me about it, something of that nature. But being involved and being there and meeting people,

00:11:23 and particularly if you ever have an opportunity to speak, it helps you to just gain that understanding about the practice and about other people. And it’s marketing. You can get a lot of

00:11:34 referrals from other individuals—not to mention the friendships. There are many people every year I scan the audience just to see if they’re there, because I’ve got to go over and say hi because I haven’t seen them in a year.

00:11:46 I’ll be honest—we all pay more attention when we’re in the room than we do when we’re at our desk and it’s on one of our screens and we’re not really listening. I’m sure nobody listening to this has ever done that, but I’ll just say—maybe I have done that once or twice. You know, the truth is, there’s a lot of great presentations planned, and you owe it to yourself—and you need the CLE. We all need the CLE.

00:12:08 So you really owe it to yourself to learn while you’re getting it, and to really get the best thinking from some of the best attorneys in Illinois who will be presenting. So I think it’s an absolute not-to-miss program this year.

00:12:21 Thank you, Lorraine and Stacy. Lorraine Cavataio of Sandberg Phoenix & von Gontard and Stacy Singer of Northern Trust are Co-chairs of the planning committee for the 2025 Estate Planning Short Course—

00:12:34 May 5th and 6th in Champaign and online via live webcast, and May 19th and 20th in Chicago. Please visit IICLE.com/EPSC25 to register now.

00:12:50 It’s going to be a great program, so don’t miss it.

00:12:54 If you have an idea for a topic you would like to hear discussed on the IICLE podcast, we welcome your suggestions by email. Our address is info@iicle.com.

00:13:07 IICLE is a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit based in Springfield, IL. We produce a wide range of practice guidance for Illinois attorneys and other legal professionals in all areas of the law, with the generous contributions of time and expertise from attorneys, judges, and other legal professionals. If you are interested in our many authorship and speaking opportunities, please give us a call

00:13:27 at 217-787-2080 or visit the Contributor Resource Center at IICLE.com/contributors.